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    克里希那穆提与佛教学者Jagannath Upadhyaya对话片断

    作者: 未知 更新时间: 2012/3/23 15:20:18 来源: 哦·灵魂网 【字号: 】 浏览

      克里希那穆提在印度有一些对话录,其中一本叫“The Way of Intelligence”

      (或可译为《智慧之道》)。以下是其中一篇对话的某个片断。在进行了大约13页的对话,教学者Jagannath Upadhyaya(简称J.U.,此人在普普尔的传记中提到过)发表了很多自己的见解后,出现了以下片断:

      ……………

      克:不是这样。你看先生,你是一个杰出的佛教学者。你读了那么多佛教,你知道佛陀是怎么说的,还有所有那些复杂的佛教分析,探索,那些异常非凡的思想结构。但是现在,如果佛陀来到你面前说,“请听”,你会听他的吗?请不要笑,因为这太严肃了。先生,回答我的问题:如果陀今天来到你面前,现在,就坐在你面前,他说,“先生,请听一下”,你会听吗?而他对你说,“如果你听我的,那就是你的转化。”听著。那个听就是对真理的倾听。

      你不能跟陀争论。

      J.U.:这个纯粹的注意力就是佛陀,而注意就是行动,这本身就是陀。这就是为什么我给你硬币的例子,它的一面……

      克:你会听吗?如果陀在跟我说话,我就会说,“先生,我听你的,因为我爱你。我不想去什么别的地方,因为我看到你说的是真的,而且我爱你。”这就完了。这就转变了一切。

      A.P.:当我知道这是陀的话,这是真理,这个真理就扫除了所有其它印象。

      克:没有人听他的,这就是为什么会有教。

      J.U.:没有佛陀,没有佛陀的话。只有倾听,而在正确的倾听中,那个具有转化力量的智慧精髓就在那里。佛陀这个词或者佛陀的话不是真理。佛陀不是真理。这个注意力本身是佛陀。佛陀不是一个人,他不是一个阿瓦塔,而且没有陀的话这种东西。注意力是唯一的真实。在这个注意中,有著纯粹的感知。这就是般若,智慧,这就是知识。那个被过去包围的瞬间,那个瞬间,在注意力的光照之下,变成了感知的瞬间。

      克:现在,请听我说。生活中有冲突。一个像我这样的人来了。他说,有一种没有知识的生活方式。不要争论。只要听就行了-不带知识地听,这意味著没有思想的运作。

      A.P.:注意的瞬间与思想过程,与因果完全没有关系。

      克:我知道我的生活是冲突。而我在说,是否有一种看,听,感知的方式,它与知识无关。我说有。那么下一个问题是,由于头脑充满知识,这样一个头脑怎么能够明白这句话呢?我说头脑无法回答这个问题。头脑习惯了冲突,而你却在给它提出一个新的问题。于是头脑在反叛,它无法回答这个问题。

      J.U.:我想知道这个。你所提出的问题是我的问题。你很清楚的提出了。

      克:演讲者说,不要反叛,听。试著不带思想地听,这意味著,你是否能看见一个东西而不命名。命名就是思想的运动。然后搞清楚什么是在看见中没有用词的头脑的状态,词是思想的运动。你去做。

      R.M.P.:这很重要。

      A.P.:你的感知就是它。

      J.U.:是的。

      P.J.:真相是看到头脑的无能。

      克:我的整个生活都改变了。于是有一种完全不同学习过程发生,也就是创造。

      P.J.:如果这本身就是那个学习过程,这就是创造性。

      克:我意识到我的生活是错误的。不需要任何人指出这一点,事实就是如此。这是一个事实,而你过来告诉我你可以立即做点什么。我不相信你。我感觉这根本不可能发生。你过来告诉我这整个的斗争,这种魔鬼般的生活方式,能够立即停止。我的头脑说,对不起,你是疯子,我不相信你。但是K说,看,我会一步一步展示给你看。你也许是神,你也许是,但是我不相信你。而K告诉你,听,给它点时间,这里是说耐心的意思。耐心不是时间。急躁是时间。耐心没有时间。

      S.P.:“不是时间的耐心”是什么?

      克:我说生活是冲突。我过来告诉你有一种冲突的结束,而头脑在抵制。我说让它抵制,但是继续地听我说,不要引进越来越多的抵制。听著就行了,动起来。不要保持著抵制。看你的抵制并继续动著,这就是耐心。知道抵制并继续走,这就是耐心。于是他说,不要反应,而是倾听这个事实,你的头脑是一个词语的网络,你没法看到任何新东西如果你总是在用词句,词句,词句。所以,你能否看一个东西,你的妻子,树木,天空,云朵,而完全不用任何一个词呢?不要说那是一朵云,只是看。如果你这样看的话,头脑发生了什么?

      原文如下:

      K: No. Now sir, you are a great Buddhist scholar. You have read a great deal of Buddhism; you know what the Buddha has said, all the intricacies of Buddhist analysis, exploration, the extraordinary structures. Now, if the Buddha came to you and said, `Listen,' would you listen to him? Please don't laugh; this is much too serious. Sir, answer my question: If the Buddha comes to you today, now, sitting there in front of you, and says, `Please sir, listen,' would you listen? And he says to you, `If you listen to me, that is your transformation.' Just listen. That listening is the listening to the truth.

      You can't argue with the Buddha.

      J.U.: This pure attention is the Buddha and this attention is action, which itself is the Buddha. That is why I gave you the instance of the coin, which has one seal on one side whereas the other side has another seal.

      K: Would you listen? If the Buddha talked to me, I would say, `Sir, I listen to you because I love you. I don't want to get anywhere because I see what you say is true, and I love you.' That is all. That has transformed everything.

      A.P.: When I am aware that this is the word of the Buddha, it is the truth. This truth wipes out every other impression.

      K: Nobody listened to him; that is why there is Buddhism.

      J.U.: There is no Buddha; there is no speaking of the Buddha. There is only listening and in the right listening the quintessence of that wisdom which transforms is there. The word Buddha or the word of the Buddha is not the truth. Buddha is not the truth. This attention itself is the Buddha. The Buddha is not a person; he is not an avatara and there is no such thing as the word of Buddha. Attention is the only reality. In this attention, there is pure perception. This is prajna, intelligence; this is knowledge. That moment which was surrounded by the past, that moment itself, under the beam of attention, becomes the moment of perception.

      K: Now, just listen to me. There is conflict. A man like me comes along. He says, there is a way of living without knowledge. Don't argue. Just listen - listen without knowledge, which means without the operation of thought.

      A.P.: That moment of attention is totally unrelated to the thought process, from causality.

      K: I know my life is conflict. And I am saying, is there a way of looking, listening, seeing, which has no relationship to knowledge. I say there is. And the next question is, as the brain is full of knowledge, how can such a brain understand this statement? I say that the brain cannot answer this question. The brain is used to conflict, habituated to it, and you are putting a new question to it. So the brain is in revolt; it cannot answer it.

      J.U.: I want to know this. The question that you have put is my question. You have posed it with clarity.

      K: The speaker says, don't be in revolt,. listen. Try to listen without the movement of thought, which means, can you see something without naming. The naming is the movement of thought. Then find out what is the state of the brain when it has not used the word in seeing, the word which is the movement of thought. Do it.

      R.M.P.: That is very important.

      A.P.: Your perception is that.

      J.U.: This is right.

      P.J.: The truth is to see the brain's incapacity.

      K: My whole life has changed. Therefore there is a totally different learning process going on, which is creation.

      P.J.: If this is itself the learning process, this is creativity.

      K.: I realize my life is wrong. Nobody has to point that out; it is so. That is a fact and you come along and tell me that you can do something instantly. I don't believe you. I feel it can never happen. You come and tell me this whole struggle, this monstrous way of living, can be ended immediately. My brain says, sorry, you are cuckoo, I don't believe you. But K says, look, I will show it to you step by step. You may be god, you may be the Buddha, but I don't believe you. And K tells you, listen, take time, in the sense, have patience. Patience is not time. Impatience is time. Patience has no time.

      S.P.: What is patience which is not time?

      K: I said life is conflict. I come along and tell you there is an ending to conflict and the brain resists. I say let it resist, but keep on listening to me, don't bring in more and more resistance. Just listen, move. Don't remain with resistance. To watch your resistance and keep moving - that is patience. To know the resistance and to move along, that is patience. So he says, don't react but listen to the fact that your brain is a network of words and you cannot see anything new if you are all the time using words, words, words. So, can you look at something, your wife, the tree, the sky, the cloud, without a single word? Don't say it is a cloud. Just look. When you so look, what has happened to the brain?

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